In other news I got neat new shoes. My mother always finds great items at consignment shops. Once I get them laced I shall take a cute picture of them. I shall be an elf this year!
Rider and his pants are now EVIL in my eyes.
For now let’s get Fate Zero episode 11 blogged and posted. It is hard doing nothing all day folks! I need motivation! Spoilers for RIDER BEING A JERK!!!
Err....someone is a crazy pants....
Episode Summary: Saber and Irisviel are walking around their messed up mansion when Saber gets a feeling. She senses Rider is coming and gets ready for battle. But really he (and poor Waver) have come to party. Oh yes Rider has brought along a keg and invited Archer to partake in their reindeer games. Rider wants to talk things over instead of fighting. They will just talk out who deserves the Grail and who doesn’t. Waver, Saber, and Irisviel are like…..X__X. Archer wishes to have the Holy Grail because it is a treasure and thus it belongs to him. All the treasures in the world belong to him so why not this one? He doesn’t have a specific wish, just he sees it as stealing if someone else has it. Rider is like okay dude I understand that. Much respect. Rider then explains why he wants it. Waver is like you said you wanted to conquer the world but he is quickly thrown away. Rider says that he wants to wish himself back to life. He wants to leave the Servant pool and enter reincarnation. There he will CONQUER destiny and be free to do whatever he wants. Archer thinks this makes sense while Saber sees this as a selfish wish. Saber explains she wants to save her country, even if that means erasing her contributions to it. Both Rider and Archer find that stupid.
Yeah okay. Because the other way around is crazy talk!
Each go around the….well the ground and explain what they think it means to be King. While there is no giraffe hopping or zebra dancing it is interesting to hear. Archer thinks being a greedy tyrant is the way to go. Rider thinks being the biggest, loudest, and best is the way to be with the subjects serving the King. Saber thinks that the King serves the people and should do anything to help their subjects, even laying down their life. Rider gets beyond rude and calls Saber a little girl for thinking that way. Saber is beyond devastated as Rider goes on and on about how Saber is really stupid. Before he can jab a sword in Saber’s heart Assassin randomly shows up much to Archer’s surprise. Waver thinks everyone should RUN but Rider takes out his handy dandy NOTEBOOK…err I mean Reality Marble and takes them to his home in the desert. There he calls upon his ultimate attack which is to summon all the other Servants EVER? Then they set to work destroy all of the Assassins. Saber continues to look on as Rider wins. Back in the real world Rider tells Saber she is not a real King and rides off. Archer tells Saber to keep believing in her ideals, if only for his amusement. He leaves and Saber becomes a lesbian because men suck. THE END!
Rider….I was rooting for you. WE WERE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU!
Seriously folks. So very disappointed in Rider this week. He was supposed to team up with Lancer and Saber to take on Castor and now Rider is at the bottom of my list. Archer managed to be less of a jerk than Rider. How did that happen?!
And yes folks what did happen to killing Castor? From the words of next week (because this season is the season of no next week previews) it doesn’t sound like Castor is going to die. It was almost like this season was a build up for season two. Kinda weird. I think the pacing would have been different had the full 24 episodes been released all together.
Clearly we are the sane ones in this war and you aren't even human.
So since no one is following the new impromptu rule, you know, the one about kill Castor….it is tea party time. Did you see Saber’s face? Well I guess Irisviel had a funny face on too. They are walking around looking at their broken mansion and some crazy person comes over with booze? Even if the crazy person wasn’t another Master I would still be scared out of my mind. Like is this dude for real? Does it look like it is party time? Oh and didn’t you just come from a blood bath? You know, that underground place with all the dead kids? Maybe it is not drinking time. JUST SAYING!
So....are the other 4 not even in the running or something?
Oh and besides the fact that Rider wanted to have a random tea party with Saber he invited Archer too! You know last time they saw Archer he wasn’t too keen on…well whatever Saber, Rider, and Lancer think this war is about. Archer isn’t about making friends. And Rider invited himself and another person over to Saber’s “home”. For people who are all about rules and honor and crap that is a bit rude. A BIT RUDE indeed.
Thus ends Waver's contribution to the conversation.
I love how Irisviel and Waver watched this entire hot mess like @_@. Almost like they couldn’t believe this happening. Also I have researched what exactly this Holy Grail War is about. Not going to spoil it for anyone else…or confuse them but a lot more is going on than some random wish thing. Maybe Irisviel knows that but I doubt Waver does. That being said…if I was their Masters I would be like UM HELLO the Grail is MINE. Now granted I do find it weird that Servants are doing a lot of the work and the Master gets the reward. But if I was the kind of person to be IN this war I would want my prize. So what the hell are ya’ll Servants talking about? Crazy pants.
Archer is always a wonderful guest.
At first Rider was okay. Let’s go around the circle and talk about our feelings. Hi my name is Rider and this is what I stand for. That part was okay. I am not sure how much SENSE it made as the Holy Grail seems to only pick the people involved in the war. It doesn’t seem to determine the winner. So while I thought the entire idea of talking about why they are more worthy was weird at least this part was civil. Crazy but civil.
I think Mt. Doom is calling your name buddy. Heard it has a treasure at the bottom of it. XD
But then Rider lost his mind and I hate him and his new shirt. HATE HIM! Apparently Archer and his ideas of deserving the Grail were okay. Because anything with the word treasure on it belongs to Archer. This is a good reason to deserve the Grail. Rider has decided his version of conquering the world means being reborn. That is why he deserves the Grail.
Nothing is wrong with wanting to be alive again but I wouldn't call that a quality of a hero.
But Saber wanting to restore her country even if that means erasing her effects on it…apparently stupid. STUPID folks. Not that I am following her way of thinking as the country is not destroyed, just smaller. Rider’s was “destroyed”. But in any event Saber wanted to help her people and in turn Rider totally took her down. I am not sure how I feel about Archer as he is naturally a jerk. He did say that watching Saber say all this stuff was fine but that might have been for his own amusement.
Firmly on team Saber.
But Rider….Rider. I expected more from you. Who are you to judge what Saber wants to do with her life or how she defines being a king. To me Archer represents the greedy vision of what a ruler is about. Only thinking of himself, wanting to have treasures, and not caring about what people think about him. Rider seems to think being a ruler means being a god, that you are the most important person in the kingdom, and people should die to protect you. Saber’s idea of being a ruler is more in tune of what I think a leader should be. That might be because I am from the United States and we have Presidents. Our officials should serve the people. If we don’t like it ideally we should be able to get rid of them.
Don't listen to him. He cares more about pants than people!
Maybe it is my way that I see government that is affecting how I see Saber’s ideals. Maybe she does have lofty ideals that will just lead her to destruction. And maybe it is sad that she rather have her legacy erased than her name be known forever. But to me a ruler should put their wants and needs in front of others. If my name is connected to destruction I rather erase that and make things positive, even if no one will remember me. Because as we all know people will forget the 2982 great things you do and remember the one horrible thing you did.
Not very King like to insult the owner of the house is it?!
So yes Rider. You suck. Whether or not you support Saber’s ideals does not mean you have the right to call her a little girl and no longer worthy of the title of King. That is not your decision to make. And what really pissed me off is that Saber actually thought of you as her equal THUS your words meant something to her. Had Archer said them it would have been like oh….you are insane. But since someone high on the honor wagon said it Saber was obviously affected.
Tis makes me really sad too. I mean….why not call out Archer on his stupid little wish? That was pretty lame, that all the treasure in the world belongs to him. It makes me sad that Saber believed him and listened to his words. And it makes me X__X that this all happened.
I think you should be asking why the heck they are here?!
But by far the stupidest thing that happened in this episode was Assassin. Like wtf was that all about? I know that some of the Masters were aware that he was still alive but did Saber know? I can’t remember now. The point is it was stupid for him to show up. Well THEM but you know what I mean. Everyone was having a miserable time at TeaParty from Hell and Assassin thinks he can win against all the Servants? Okay dude. That was a great plan.
OKAY! I guess....
I am not sure what a Reality Marble is. Nor am I sure what Rider’s super ultimate attack is all about. Like how did he get the support of all the Servants EVER?! Not understanding what that is all about. And since I don’t know what a Reality Marble is I can’t very well say if it was beyond Rider’s ability or not. Just that Waver looked all X__X. And it gave Saber more reason to be sad.
So in conclusion Saber feels like crap, Rider is a jerk, and the great Assassin army has been seriously dwindled down. A very positive episode yes? YAY EPISODE 11!!!
13 comments:
Thank you for siding with Saber. I liked her idea of selflessness over Rider's selfishness. However both were on the extremes of the spectrum. Saber thought she should deidcate her entire life to her kingdom and have no happiness as a result. Rider thought his empire should dedicate itself to him and basically live a life of happiness. Saber's idea of protecting her people and her country was so much more noble than Rider that I could only side with Saber here. Sadly I think Saber was mentally hurt in this episode =(
Though you left it out of your blog I thought Saber bringing up what the rest of the knights of the round table thought and felt was pretty important. It connected her legend to what Rider had said to her. She questioned what her allies thought about her back in her time, which may affect her.
Also a reality marble is having someone's inner world projected onto reality. The worlds created by a reality marble are cut off from normal reality and because of this thay can contain virtually anything. Reality marbles cause all people within range in normal reality to disappear from sight. They are also very difficult to keep stable and constantly require a large amount of prana/mana. I had to look it up after this episode =P
I thought I have talked about this marble thing in early episode, christina. X_X
You could say it's the ultimate form of magic, with only several people in the world can use. It's very powerful, for engulfing people in your artificial world, which you created to your liking, for your advantage in battle.
SO, why can Rider makes it when he's not even a mage? Because it's a collective work, which is also implied already in his talk. All his loyal retainers, who served his during their life time, wish to march together once again with him.
This is actually a weakness, because all of them are individual, low level servants, rather than Rider's magic or creation. If one of them killed, he's killed permanently, because that's how servant system works, And if a lot of them killed, the artificial world will fall apart.
Gatx375- I think that Saber was probably very miserable in her past life trying to keep up with her ideals and what not. But yet that is much nobler than Rider (and of course Archer without saying). And while neither lifestyle is necessarily a truly positive thing Rider was WAY out of line with how he treated Saber.
I wanted to talk about what Saber was referring to about her Knights but I was unclear WHAT she could be talking about. Mainly because she is a SHE! I am not sure what parts of the King Arther legend are still held true in this anime and which ones are ignored. You know the part where there was a cheating wife and all. XD So I wish she would have explained more on what she meant. Where the Knights not on board about her ideals or were they worried about her?
Eternia- XO I do remember you saying that now. I guess I got confused because technically Rider is not a mage nor did I think he could randomly do it at will. I guess I was more applying it to the Masters, people planning out specific attacks, than a random Servant who did not know he/she was being brought into this war.
But yes I remember. And your explanation is way better than the one given in the show. X__X Fate/Zero is not really good about explaining things to people with limited prior knowledge to this series.
So the Servants spoken about were just his servants in his personal life? Bleh. But yeah now that you explain everything it sounds like a pretty bad ultimate attack. Things are out of his control. X__X Do not like. Nor do I think Waver liked.
Yup. Yup. If only they are his creation, Rider would be really unbeatable. just like how Goldy can summon unlimited weapons, imagine if someone can summon unlimited subordinates. :-)
But no, they are just servants are revived together with him. And they can be wiped out just fine, just like Assassins.
The anime failed to explain this (but probably next episode would explain) : Kirei has lost all his assassins during this battle. He no longer has Servant. He's following Tokiomi's foolish order to gangbang 3 Servants using ALL of them, only to be wiped out.
Haha. Talk about stupidity.
Oh wait. Archer is not included because he's Tokiomi's servant. But I am pretty sure that Archer wouldn't hesitate in killing Assassins.
Eternia- This anime is pretty weak on the explaining department. I feel as if you are here adding all the IMPORTANT cliffnotes to this series. And for that I thank you. I really thought that maybe he kept ONE Assassin out of the battle to keep himself in the War. But as we see in the next episode he really is just following as a sheep. Which is sad because I wanted him to be underhanded all the time. :(
Don't think you get it:
Saber's suffering. She wants to redo history (which is dangerous as heck, since it would change the real world) and seemly has no pride or consideration for her people for all she talks. She didn't live as a human being, but an ideal, she's not a leader anyone wants to follow because of her lack of humanity (she never smiled to her people even faithful knights like Benivere. Heck, her own SON killed her because she never expressed well her feelings). In the light novels, she was attacking verbally and accusing Rider (also Gil) of being tyrants, calling them heretics and being an overall bitch too (some scenes were cut, including Gil's remarks), convinced their people turned against them and that they never cared about them...
Then Rider's Noble Phantasm (the representation about his kingship) told her otherwise. That a human king like Rider, who doesn't deny his human shortcomings but embrace them (to the max: virtue and flaws) is admired and followed by his people EVEN after they die. Across time and space, those heroic spirits are summoned because they are devoted to their king and are happy to join him.
This is what she wanted to accomplish in life with her ideals, but could never happen. In fact, her people turned against her and killed her because "King Arthur doesn't understand human feelings." She was crushed for what that stood for: Rider, the so-called tyrant (who she had badmouthed for uncaring), acknowledges that HIS best treasure are his *people and the bonds they forged*. That's why he was so pissed when she so thoughtlessly wanted to rewrite history, mocking the struggle of those who fought next to her.
She misjudged him. That's why she wanted to reach out for him in the end. Saber really likes Rider (and hates Gilgamesh), for he accomplished what she couldn't.
Rider doesn't acknolwedge her as King, not because he's Mean. But because being a King to Saber is Suffering (she's more a martyr who is in complete misery). He rather wants to defeat her for her to join his army so she wouldn't be FOREVER ALONE (he's kind of that shounen hero that holds the mantra: defeat means friendship). He's like a big brother, trying some tough love on a little sister he thinks is doing something stupid.
Now he's mistaken that her ideals aren't strong (like Saber, he'll see her NP and acknolwedge his mistake), but he's right that's mentally crushing her right now. This was the POINT in Fate route in Fate Stay Night. Saber getting over her regrets and accepting her end, embracing her pride as King rather than a little girl's weakness (which she has atm).
They are both good people who actually care, but show it in different ways, you know?
Thess- Wow. X__X Everyone is such a well of information about this series. I feel as if I am left in the dark. Almost like this series has to be researched or playing/read in another media to truly understand it.
Now that I have all the information...I guess I can see where Rider is coming from. But I can still see Saber's point of view. Some people are not good at expressing their feelings. Saber wanted to protect her people and turning herself into an ideal is how she thought she could achieve that best.
Now of course to balance that type of leader you need someone to talk and smooth things over with the people. That is where Saber failed. Having a loveable wife to relate to the people in the long run probably would have helped her out so much.
I think Rider had a right to be upset with Saber but with what information he gave her in the beginning I can see how she jumped to that conclusion. But it does make sense. Just because someone is a hardass doesn't mean people don't love and respect you.
I love the new point of view you have given me on this. I still think Rider was still very harsh but Saber probably needed to hear the truth. I can see why Saber wants a redo in life but how Rider thinks that would be disrespectful to the people who served for Saber.
Prepare yourself for more TL;DR XD
Rider lost his temper because Saber was accusing him of not giving a damn about his people which was personally insulting to him. Since, you know, giving a damn is the foundation of his power: flawless cooperation in which king and followers are a single entity. The Anime also cut down the length of Waver's flashback where you get to see why his former enemies left everything behind to follow him in episode 12, it was touching to read about it. His way of conquest is not really about the land and treasure but the PEOPLE. He cares about that more than anything and the endless, prosperous adventure that life and the world has to offer. That's what Oceanus encompassed. It's a utopia in a way.... Different from Saber's Avalon, but just as much as worthy (they are so idealistic both of them lol).
(He was also drunk, like Saber. Special Gil's wine and all).
If you notice, he was discussing things calmly until she pulled that remark that (while Saber was the one who lost her temper first). And he also lost it when she admitted to be a self suffering person. Because "that's not a way a human being should live." And he's right somewhat. Rider, unlike Gilgamesh, doesn't take pleasure in people's suffering. You see his nature in episode 9 when facing Caster's child furniture. He hates it. Saber suffers and regrets. He can't stand to see the weight of Kingship on her because it never brought any her joy. If she was at peace with it (as she is in the first route of the sequel), he will be OK with it (episode 5 cut his speech to Saber that he knows their way to do things as kings are incompatible like fire and ice, but they are all ok, because the world is big enough for many ways of kingship. Not everything is "black or white").
He is someone who never 'sacrificed' anything he wants to do, unlike Saber, but doesn't mean he wouldn't sacrifice himself for someone if he wants to (he sacrifices a lot for Waver's sake). It means he does what he wants and never reins his emotions. But thank God, HIS desires are pretty much good. He's not sadistic, he doesn't want to humiliate or destroy, his way of conquest is of mastership and defeat without this. Aka Carpe Diem.
When he says the king isn't the one to sacrifice, he means his humanity. Saber sacrificed herself in stripping her humanity away (it's not as if she saved everyone in her kingdom. We know Saber sacrificed her villages for the sake of her army too, even if she hated doing this. Kind of like Kiritsugu does, they have a lot in common). Rider, like I say, embraced this, never expecting his followers would be any less or more than he is: human.
God, I had to cut the comment so I could reply. Anyway:
Of course, Saber cannot really accept this salvation. Even with all Rider's well wishes, he led an enviable life. She cannot connect with him because of that. She saw her kingdom destroyed under her very nose and her own son trying to kill her, after a lifetime of sacrifice. While Rider died on his prime (which is another tragedy), so she can only really communicate with someone with a similar regret (like Diarmuid or Shirou). It's a flaw of hers; she's struggling with empathy. She's completely puzzled at Rider's attitude in episode 5, in the book version, she's not grateful because he saved her, because of his reasons to do that. He saved her because he felt like and not out of chivalry obligation or a carefully planned scheme. That he does as he wants (even if it's good and healthy) is like talking in her in some alienspeech.
She was on guard and glaring because she just could not believe he was for real. But he was. He could have slain her, Lancer and Berserker in that opening he had (she knew this), but he didn't because... he *felt* it was wrong? She can't really get it. He's just a good person who does not feel like denying himself. A tyrant whose real treasure is his relationship with his people. Whose desires are more important, but oh, well, turns up his desires are flawlessly shared his followers anyway (Noble Phantasms are miracle, it's not just a power, this perfect leadership is a miracle). His entire existence destroys the foundations of Saber's reasoning, because she can't wrap her mind around this. She's a bit narrow-minded and self-righteous. Which helps her in being strong in her ideals, but blinds her in a way.
The greatest tragedy in the conversation is that Rider began his criticism in the right way (attacking her canonically WRONG wish. It's established as retarded, Saber eventually realized it was born of her weakness in Fate Stay Night, Fate route) and then got derailed in MORALS!1! (of course Saber's guilty here too, since she's the one who shoved them down their throats) which completely lost its weight and meaning. Sad thing because Saber might have been saved earlier if this would haven't gotten off topic.
She'll get a nasty surprise too that would once again make her suffer.
You probably might have guessed what is the surprise that is hinted in the ending.
Thess- Thank you so much for your time and comments. I understand that animes have to cut a lot down from their original source but a lot of information you and others have given me might have made me blog this episode differently.
I suppose it is hard for me to imagine that a "conquer" could really be friends with the people he conquered. Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time seeing Rider's point of view on things. Saber seems more like a protector and I think that is why I connected with her more.
However I think I am guilty of acting like Rider. In my head I have good intentions when I am talking to people but when the conversation goes south I end up yelling and looking like the person at fault when really I just wanted to help. So maybe that is what happened with Rider.
Also I had a strong reaction to two men telling "a little girl" what she did wrong with her kingship. That just struck me as rude and probably clouded my judgement.
But Saber is pretty much stuck in her ways and I can see how she wasn't really opening up to this random conversation. But I can also see how she might have thought he was a ruthless conqueror given she didn't know the whole truth.
I want to thank you all for these important details. I still love this show but I wish they would do a better job explaining important facts like this.
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